For Bari sax players Help!
Question: For Bari sax players Help
I switch from alto to bari!. I have played the bari a couple of times so far because i just got it yesturday and I have noticed a big change, it might just be my brand new reed that i havent broken in yet, but i have noticed that you have to blow a different style!. Could any experienced bari players tell me a good way to get a low bari sound when i play!? IWww@Enter-QA@Com
Answers:
Haha!.!.!. yes!.!.!. you absolutely "blow in a different style"!
Like you, I went from a small, tight embouchure (clarinet) straight to playing the bari!.!.!. it can send you into shock, but it can be done! :)
Here's a few tips:
1) Your reed being new may be part of it, but it may also be too hard!. If you play a strength 3 alto reed, try a 2!.5 bari reed!. The bari reeds are twice the size of alto reeds, and although the strengths seem like they should be the same, trying to adjust your embouchure to the larger reed may give you some problems at first!. With a little practice, you can try a harder strength!. Honestly, I still use a 2!.5 and I've been playing for nearly 2 decades!
2) I know this should be obvious, but the bari is MUCH heavier!.!.!. you need to be aware of your posture!. Even if you usually have good posture when you start playing, you may start to slouch or lean just because the instrument is so heavy!. Most likely, you will lean to the left, trying to compensate for the weight pulling you over to the right!. Make sure to take a break if you feel tired or your neck starts to hurt!. If you have bad posture, you will NEVER get a good tone on the bari!. Try practicing in front of a mirror now and again so you can SEE if you are doing anything wrong!.
3) Your embouchure (the way your lips, tongue, throat, and jaw are positioned): think about how you play the alto, but drop your jaw and open your throat!. Think about playing your low "C" on the alto!.!.!. you know how you open your throat and almost "round" your mouth positioning!.!.!. yeah, on bari it's the same thing, but more extreme!. For alto you are working to get a focused sound, but on bari (and especially in jazz) you are aiming for a fat, round sound!. Note: NOT SLOPPY! Your sound shouldn't go "splat!", but it should be more full and robust!. The corners of your mouth should still be tight, but loosen the pressure on your jaw!.!.!. your tongue should be almost in an "ahh" (as in hot) shape!. Now as you go up in the range of the horn, you should still tighten up, and into the altissimo, your tongue should be saying "eeee", but you still want an open throat!.
4) Air!.!.!. don't be afraid to blow!!!! The largest problem with bari players (and honestly, most beginning wind players) is not using enough air!. You may get dizzy at first, but put some air through that horn!!! As a bari player, you can never play loud enough!.!.!. if your director tells you to play softer, take it as a compliment!.
That being said, please don't think that I am telling you to play "fff" all the time!.!.!. you should still play dynamics! BUT- when you first start, it is better to be too loud than to be weak!.!.!. you will learn to control your dynamics with time and practice!.
So what the other poster was saying about warm fast air, etc!.!.!. this is good in tuning!. If your notes are flat, use faster cooler air, and vice versa if you're sharp!. This can effect your tone a little bit, but it takes practice to know what tone you are looking for and how to control it!.
Try this exercise!.!.!. it helps build up air stream endurance, tone, and getting the low notes to speak:
Start with your open notes (like middle of the staff "C#")!. Hold it as long as you can, and concentrate on your tone!. Aim for it to be steady and warm!. Towards the end of your air, slur down a half step, and hold for 2 seconds!. Take a deep breath, start on the "C natural", and repeat the process to a "B", and so on!.!.!. don't forget to tongue each time you are starting a note!.
If you are still having problems getting down low, shorten the notes, but do a slow chromatic scale, and slur all the way down, then back up!. Pay attention to your throat!. After you get good at getting those low notes to speak, try a chromatic scale down, but tongue each note 4 times, slowly!. (IE: C C C C B B B B A# A# A# A#!.!.!. etc!.) Do the same going up!.
After you get good at this, do it all over again, but with a tuner!.!.!. you'll be surprised that some of your low notes are now going too low! Haha!
One other thing I should mention is that part of the fun of playing sax is "finding your tone"!. 100 sax players will have 100 different sounds!.!.!. start listening to different guys and see whose sound you like, then try to imitate it!. Some GREAT bari players to try: Gerry Mulligan ("Birth of the Cool"), Claire Daily (a woman!), Stephen "Doc" Kupka (Tower of Power), Atsushi Yanaka (Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra), and Harry Carney (played with Duke Ellington)!.
That should be more then enough to get you started!.!.!. sorry I wrote you a small book!.!.!. but I hope it helps! :)Www@Enter-QA@Com
Like you, I went from a small, tight embouchure (clarinet) straight to playing the bari!.!.!. it can send you into shock, but it can be done! :)
Here's a few tips:
1) Your reed being new may be part of it, but it may also be too hard!. If you play a strength 3 alto reed, try a 2!.5 bari reed!. The bari reeds are twice the size of alto reeds, and although the strengths seem like they should be the same, trying to adjust your embouchure to the larger reed may give you some problems at first!. With a little practice, you can try a harder strength!. Honestly, I still use a 2!.5 and I've been playing for nearly 2 decades!
2) I know this should be obvious, but the bari is MUCH heavier!.!.!. you need to be aware of your posture!. Even if you usually have good posture when you start playing, you may start to slouch or lean just because the instrument is so heavy!. Most likely, you will lean to the left, trying to compensate for the weight pulling you over to the right!. Make sure to take a break if you feel tired or your neck starts to hurt!. If you have bad posture, you will NEVER get a good tone on the bari!. Try practicing in front of a mirror now and again so you can SEE if you are doing anything wrong!.
3) Your embouchure (the way your lips, tongue, throat, and jaw are positioned): think about how you play the alto, but drop your jaw and open your throat!. Think about playing your low "C" on the alto!.!.!. you know how you open your throat and almost "round" your mouth positioning!.!.!. yeah, on bari it's the same thing, but more extreme!. For alto you are working to get a focused sound, but on bari (and especially in jazz) you are aiming for a fat, round sound!. Note: NOT SLOPPY! Your sound shouldn't go "splat!", but it should be more full and robust!. The corners of your mouth should still be tight, but loosen the pressure on your jaw!.!.!. your tongue should be almost in an "ahh" (as in hot) shape!. Now as you go up in the range of the horn, you should still tighten up, and into the altissimo, your tongue should be saying "eeee", but you still want an open throat!.
4) Air!.!.!. don't be afraid to blow!!!! The largest problem with bari players (and honestly, most beginning wind players) is not using enough air!. You may get dizzy at first, but put some air through that horn!!! As a bari player, you can never play loud enough!.!.!. if your director tells you to play softer, take it as a compliment!.
That being said, please don't think that I am telling you to play "fff" all the time!.!.!. you should still play dynamics! BUT- when you first start, it is better to be too loud than to be weak!.!.!. you will learn to control your dynamics with time and practice!.
So what the other poster was saying about warm fast air, etc!.!.!. this is good in tuning!. If your notes are flat, use faster cooler air, and vice versa if you're sharp!. This can effect your tone a little bit, but it takes practice to know what tone you are looking for and how to control it!.
Try this exercise!.!.!. it helps build up air stream endurance, tone, and getting the low notes to speak:
Start with your open notes (like middle of the staff "C#")!. Hold it as long as you can, and concentrate on your tone!. Aim for it to be steady and warm!. Towards the end of your air, slur down a half step, and hold for 2 seconds!. Take a deep breath, start on the "C natural", and repeat the process to a "B", and so on!.!.!. don't forget to tongue each time you are starting a note!.
If you are still having problems getting down low, shorten the notes, but do a slow chromatic scale, and slur all the way down, then back up!. Pay attention to your throat!. After you get good at getting those low notes to speak, try a chromatic scale down, but tongue each note 4 times, slowly!. (IE: C C C C B B B B A# A# A# A#!.!.!. etc!.) Do the same going up!.
After you get good at this, do it all over again, but with a tuner!.!.!. you'll be surprised that some of your low notes are now going too low! Haha!
One other thing I should mention is that part of the fun of playing sax is "finding your tone"!. 100 sax players will have 100 different sounds!.!.!. start listening to different guys and see whose sound you like, then try to imitate it!. Some GREAT bari players to try: Gerry Mulligan ("Birth of the Cool"), Claire Daily (a woman!), Stephen "Doc" Kupka (Tower of Power), Atsushi Yanaka (Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra), and Harry Carney (played with Duke Ellington)!.
That should be more then enough to get you started!.!.!. sorry I wrote you a small book!.!.!. but I hope it helps! :)Www@Enter-QA@Com
The short answer is to run many, many long tones in front of a mirror to troubleshoot embouchure issues (works for troubleshooting hand positioning issues, too)!. The larger reed (please go down a reed strength immediately to make tone production easier at first- you'll know when it's time to trade up in strength when the reeds start wearing out too quickly) calls for a more relaxed jaw position and a much larger air column, but the musculature around the mouth must remain firm enough to seal off the circle of the mouth!. That means there are two muscle groups working in opposing manner, so work through this patiently!. The Larry Teal book "The Art of Saxophone Playing" might be an excellent reference text; start with the sections on embouchure and breathing!.Www@Enter-QA@Com
A low sound!? Well, holding the right keys gets a lower note!.
Other factors: The way your chin juts determines how the air flows into the mouthpiece!.
-I might be wrong, but I think blowing slow cold air gets a lower note, and fast warm air gets a higher note!.Www@Enter-QA@Com
Other factors: The way your chin juts determines how the air flows into the mouthpiece!.
-I might be wrong, but I think blowing slow cold air gets a lower note, and fast warm air gets a higher note!.Www@Enter-QA@Com