Understanding the skeptic VI: "Measureable astrological influences"?!


Question: Understanding the skeptic VI: "Measureable astrological influences"!?
This is a quote taken from Phil Plait, noted skeptic, in reference to astrological "pull" or affects:

"If it exists, it must be measurable, and for astrologers to be able to use it to cast horoscopes, their claims must be consistent!. After all, if a force cannot be measured, it cannot have an effect on us, and if astrologers say such a force exists, then all their claims must be based on that force, and should be consistent with each other!. "

What has Mr!. Plait overlooked in his assessment!?Www@Enter-QA@Com


Answers:
Mr!. Plait is working on the assumption that effects have causes!. What he overlooks is that the existence of a cause is not the same as human beings knowing what that cause is!. Just because a cause is unknown doesn't mean the effect isn't there!.

This particular bit of reasoning does not necessarily have to be wrong!. Instead, it simply doesn't constitute a refutation!.Www@Enter-QA@Com

He has overlooked the fact that people like to have guidance and reassurance, and that they like to believe there *must be* a order and meaning to everything!. In the case of horoscopes, a cosmic order!.

Nothing wrong with such a belief/desire in itself, but since skepticism presupposes rationalism, any system or belief which does not have a demonstrably rational basis will be rejected by a skeptic!. In other words, as a skeptic, he hasn't overlooked anything!.Www@Enter-QA@Com

Astrologers have been casting charts for MANY CENTURIES !.!.!. and there ARE 'measurable effects' that have been 'noted' to be the same !.!.!. but since each person is born at a different time and place (even twins are born individually, and others could be born in the same hospital but different delivery rooms !.!.!. EVERY INCH COUNTS) there are billions of different ways the charts can 'vary' !.!.!.
I learned to 'do' astrological casting, but I don't because I have a friend who has been trying for well over 40 years to 'prove astrology is a fake' !.!.!. she has done this by casting charts for people, giving readings, and doing 'future predictions' !.!.!. her accuracy rating is 98!.9% FAVORABLE (correct readings and predictions) !.!.!. so HOW could what she 'says' WORK if there wasn't SOMETHING to the practice of Astrology!. Done PROPERLY it is VERY DIFFICULT and most people don't learn how to 'cast the chart from scratch' !.!.!. but when it's done it takes at least 10 'mathematical calculations' done by measuring the angles of the planets and stars in the sky !.!.!. and IT WORKS!. So what has Mr!. Plait 'overlooked' !.!.!. probably learning HOW to cast a chart properly or all of the MATH needed to do so, and how to "READ" a chart properly, which takes even MORE books !.!.!. it's EASY to 'talk' !.!.!. it's DIFFICULT to LEARN!.Www@Enter-QA@Com

With "measurable", I assume he means something along the lines of radiation or gravitational force!.

I could simply tell him that no earlier than 100 years ago, people would have considered him mad for thinking that there was such a thing as radiation!. No later than 100 years from now I suspect that many other measurable forces will be found!.

Simply because it is unmeasurable at this time and age, doesn't mean it is non existent; it simply shows us how little we yet know!.

Our claims are only based on the *result* of that "unmeasurable" force, but every one of us interprets it differently!. Just like different doctors interpret symptoms in their own way and different psychiatrists will come up with a different conclusion for just one person!. But no one ever breathes down *their* neck for not coming up with the same results, do they!?Www@Enter-QA@Com

Hes overlooked HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY which is NOT measurable and thank the lord, too!.Www@Enter-QA@Com

Apparently if it isn't in black and white doesn't exist!. So does God exist to these people because it isn't black and white!?Www@Enter-QA@Com

if he's a noted skeptic, then why is he wasting his time on this subject at allWww@Enter-QA@Com

They say their is a 13th star signWww@Enter-QA@Com

I would tell him he was looking in the wrong place!. He has overlooked the whole concept of synchronicity!. Astrology has nothing to do with cause and effect per se!. Through the years astrologers have observed patterns between what goes on in the heavens and what happens to human beings both individually and collectively!. I would tell to read Jung!. ;)

He also has overlooked the concept of free will!. An individual can take a seemingly *bad* aspect and through his awareness of that weakness turn it into something positive!. Ghandi did that with his first house Mars!!

He has also overlooked the whole purpose of our existence!. The birth chart is our map!. It tells us what talents we have and what obstacles we are to overcome in this lifetime!. How the individual manifests his chart depends alot on evolutionary level of his soul!. Ultimately, we are to completely transend our natal charts!.

At this point I'm sure I would've lost him!. lolWww@Enter-QA@Com

He is saying " if it exists , it must be measurable!.!.!.!.and after all, if a force cannot be measured, it cannot have an effect on us "!.!.!.

He might be right, but he is basing his skeptics on science perspective!. Everthing in science needs to be measured , tried and approved!.!.!. But science is not astrology, astrology is spirituality and nothing can measure spirituality!. The planets exert forces on us, these forces can not be taken as the " forces " that have been approved by science !. the force that the planets have on us cant not be measured in newton unit, or Amp unit or any kind of unit!. These forces must be taken as spiritual forces that can not , in anyway, measured!. If what he said was true, I reckon now they can measure if someone is emotionally hurt by putting a scale 1 to 10 !.

I have a question though, I dont know much about the astrology community, but have all the astrologers been consistent with each other or with their own work to make him say that !?

Edit : excellent Dee!. Now this is another point to counter science view on astrology!. Science itself has been biased and inconsistent through out!. And this has been covered in previous uh!.!.!.!.!.skepti-ology questions by Dee!. :DWww@Enter-QA@Com

I am skeptical of the fact that modern science and scientists have not yet found a cure for cancer but they have no problem billing the patients and their families billions of dollars!.

I am skeptical of the fact that modern science and scientists have not yet found a cure for cancer but they have no problem accepting billions of dollars in grant money and tax money to cover such research year after year!.

I am skeptical of the fact that Mr!. Phil Plait, noted skeptic, seems afraid to explore the reasons for such irresponsibility of costs and lack of success in scientific methods!. Never since the sale of snake oil medicine has our world been so rampant with lack of help and cure versus dollars and false hope!.

I am skeptical of the fact that Mr!. Phil Plait, noted skeptic, limits his skepticism to only certain areas of society and ignores others!.Www@Enter-QA@Com

I did a quick search for Mr!. Plait's dob or natal chart!. I think it would be fun to do the charts of famous skeptics and see just what is going on!. What is it within their own personalities that drives them to feed the ego so much!. "Oh you're WRONG and I'm SO RIGHT!." One has to be a bit of a crank to go off in that direction!. I want to see his natal chart!

That being said, he's a scientist!. Scientists want to measure stuff!.

What we do is "metaphysics" it's beyond physical, other than physical, ergo it can't be weighed and measured!. Has anyone read the book "Psychic Discoveries behind the Iron Curtain"!? Other countries have spend government dollars to study ESP and other paranormal manifestations!.

Just because something can't be measured by the tools we have at this time doesn't mean that the influence doesn't exist!. At one time lightening was a strike from the God Thor and rain was the dampness off of the hem of a Goddess who took a peepee!. What we don't understand by our limited means doesn't invalidate observations that have been recounted for centuries!.

Astrologers have shared their observations with each other for centuries!. I'm sure that astrologers here have picked up a new astrology book, flipped the pages, scanned the information and put the book back on the shelf, not buying it!. Why!? Because what we scanned didn't make sense, or it was too general, or it's been said before, or it was totally bogus!. What are we looking for!? We're looking for information that makes sense, can be observed in the charts and behavior of the people we know, adds to our storehouse of knowledge!.

We don't accept astrological information that doesn't work, that doesn't make sense, that's superficial and shallow, or that's wrong!. That doesn't compute for my Mercury conjunct Saturn in Virgo in the 8th!.

We cast charts, observe, share our observations!. We are not so concerned with HOW it works, but whether it works or not!. Do you know how an elevator works before you take it up to the fourth floor!? No!. Do you really know how the internal combustion engine works before you drove a car!? No!. Do you know how the chemicals in our body is translated to electronic impulses that fire in our brains as we read this word!? No!. But we use our brains anyway!.

If something works, over and over, and is validated by observations of other people, if we don't know how the thing works, but it does work consistently, then it would be illogical and imprudent to discard these observations because some cranky astronomer wanted to enhance "that certain part of the male body" with debunking that which he has not investigated!.

It just chaps Aunty's hide!. grrrrrrrWww@Enter-QA@Com



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